Hello everybody

[Jeff]

heh heh heh. Whatever

[Jeff]

"Socialism is based on the premise that people are relatively poor becuase of circumstances or because of some other element beyond their control. (This is true in only a very few cases. Katrina would be a good example.)"

Because everyone starts out with the same amount, right? We all get an equal head start, right?

Have you reasoned what it is like to grow up without enough money? You can't afford to go to school, you can't get a decent job because you have no degree, and then high-minded Republicans whose parents got them into good schools spit on you because you're not "motivated" enough to break out of your poverty. And then they go play golf.

[brilliantvapor]

Two things. One: are you from Kansas?
Two: We don't all start equally in life. I know this better than some, although not as well as others. However, I think that it is not the governments job to fix this. The government is there to give some structure to society - laws, basically. I don't think that the government has much right to take from some and give to others (welfare is a Christian heresy), but I do think that the church should be involved in making sure that nobody goes hungry, and equipping people to make a living for themselves. In fact, the church really should be better at it than the government.

[Jeff]

1. Yes.
2. "I don't think that the government has much right to take from some and give to others" - The government has the right to take our money to kill others, but not to help them?

3."In fact, the church really should be better at it than the government." - You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, we're not.

[hansmast]

3."In fact, the church really should be better at it than the government." - You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, we're not.

At points we may lag the gov, but in the vast majority of instances we are lightyears ahead.

[JLapp]

Amen Jeff on #2. You know, I dont think its our money, nor is it Gods its the governments money (whose inscription does it bear?)

[ofLI]

well jeff...i don't know which republicans your talking about...that sounds like the North East blue blood lib.s to me that no better than i do how to live my life...

i was given nothing by my parents...they discouraged me from going to school...they charged me rent from teh point of 18 on (130) dollars a month in 93-99...all the time i was going school i was incurring debt to them...my parents never gave me any money at all....

i have a BA and MA...from great colleges no...but i have seen nothing that convinces me the Ivies L.s are all the lib;s crack them up to be...(there is a graduate of Yale and Harvard as my colleagues and i dare say my ed. outshines theres...i own two rental properties and hold an average job...teaching NYC...AM hist...my parents have never helped...

i guess my parents did teach me honesty and hardwork...that i think is the difference...i have never seen the govt. teach this...instead they make idiotic promises(see bush on katrina or no child left behind) that blindly lead the blind
josh

[Jeff]

My parents have never given me money, either. But they did give me a home in a decent, low-crime neighborhood, a first job, etc. Things that should not be overlooked

[ofLI]

i dare say two parents also...which is more than most my students have...

[brilliantvapor]

Next question for you Jeff. Do you know Karen, and therefore, have I not met you?

When it comes right down to it, who says the government should be taking our money to fight a war? However, the fact is that while war has never been something Christians were commanded to do, giving to others is. Thus, when the government wages war they are not doing something for us that we have been commanded to do, but when they redistribute wealth, they are.

[hansmast]

Next question for you Jeff. Do you know Karen, and therefore, have I not met you?

Yup for both of us.

[Jeff]

1. uh, yeah, i guess we have. Sorry.

2. "When it comes right down to it, who says the government should be taking our money to fight a war?" Republicans.

3. "while war has never been something Christians were commanded to do, giving to others is" http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html The United States, the "Christian" nation, is among the lowest on this chart in per capita private giving. We Americans have been trained by our government that our money is OURS and no one else's. We worked for it, didn't we???

And at the top of the chart are those dastardly socialistic countries, Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. Those countries where no one works because the government pays for everything so the economy suffers and no one has any money and... WAIT!! Somehow those sneaky little devils have enough money to share with others?!?!? They must be smoking crack!

[justpeachy607]

And at the top of the chart are those dastardly socialistic countries, Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. Those countries where no one works because the government pays for everything so the economy suffers and no one has any money and... WAIT!! Somehow those sneaky little devils have enough money to share with others?!?!? They must be smoking crack!

I laughed out loud when Pat Robertson flashed pictures of those dastardly people sitting on park benches, licking ice cream cones most contentedly, while he whined, "Why don't they want to be like us?"

Since when is a country's (relatively) high GNP the mark of righteousness?

Welcome to the list, and I'm eager to hear more of your political ideas.

[brilliantvapor]

Well, I was going to actually find some statistics, but I have a limited time on the internet, and they weren't coming easily - due, I am certain, to my lack of experience doing such things - but I seem to remember hearing at various times that lower and even middle class families tend to give at a higher percentage of their income than do upper class families. This could have something to do with the ability to empathise and even the fact that Christian influence tends to be more prevelant among the poor (eye of a needle idea and all). So, not disputing your statistics, and I'm really well read enough on all the different systems of government to argue a lot, but this was just an interesting thought I had.

Say Hi to Karen for me, will you?

[hansmast]

Please source those stats. Last time you quoted stats like that (saying that child poverty was higher in US than socialist Scandanavian countires) they were arrived at by blatanly slanted methods.

Basically the UN child poverty study (that you cited) used a relative scale to determine poverty. Because the U.S.'s income per citizen is higher, the threshold for "poverty" was set higher.