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Postby hansmast on Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:12 pm

jnisly wrote:at the risk of being obnoxious, socialism and communism have very little in common. Socialism depends on free, informed societies to function and aims only to make life better and more equitable for all citizens, while communism is a totalitarian means of trying to achieve utopia. Vietnam is communist. Please at least try not to be ignorant.


The political environment is different between communism and socialism, but the economic theory and end result is the same: stagnation and decline.
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Postby ivorykeys on Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:48 pm

jnisly wrote:at the risk of being obnoxious, socialism and communism have very little in common. Socialism depends on free, informed societies to function and aims only to make life better and more equitable for all citizens, while communism is a totalitarian means of trying to achieve utopia. Vietnam is communist. Please at least try not to be ignorant.


Their official title is "The Socialist Republic of Viet Nam." (By the way, I speak as one who has spent time as a prisoner of the government in a country which calls itself socialist. Does this help to explain my reaction?)

Regardless, communism is a branch of socialism, and like Hans said, they lead to the same end.
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Postby jnisly on Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:38 pm

The actual name of a country is often irrelevant, the United Kingdom of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland certainly isn't much of a kingdom, but rather a parliamentary democracy. The governing style of Vietnam is communism.

What country were you imprisoned in? It does explain your reaction, but true socialism does not include political imprisonment. Neither does it necessarily lead to economic decline. No use getting in this debate for the hundredth time I guess though.
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Postby ivorykeys on Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:43 am

jnisly wrote:The actual name of a country is often irrelevant, the United Kingdom of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland certainly isn't much of a kingdom, but rather a parliamentary democracy. The governing style of Vietnam is communism.


I stand corrected.

What country were you imprisoned in? It does explain your reaction, but true socialism does not include political imprisonment. Neither does it necessarily lead to economic decline. No use getting in this debate for the hundredth time I guess though.


I was not trying to imply that "true socialism includes political imprisonment"; I was merely explaining why the word "socialist" brings up some pretty strong feelings for me. (I was imprisoned in Vietnam.) I've always connected the terms socialist and communist.

No use getting in this debate for the hundredth time I guess though.


Agreed. Hey, if you want to be a socialist, that's fine with me...it's a free country. 8)
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Postby eugene on Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:17 pm

ivorykeys wrote:
jnisly wrote:No use getting in this debate for the hundredth time I guess though.


Agreed. Hey, if you want to be a socialist, that's fine with me...it's a free country. 8)

Lovely, ivorykeys! That's one of the best I've heard in a long time.
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Postby ivorykeys on Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:19 am

eugene wrote:
ivorykeys wrote:Agreed. Hey, if you want to be a socialist, that's fine with me...it's a free country. 8)

Lovely, ivorykeys! That's one of the best I've heard in a long time.


LOL, thanks.
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Postby Marvin Mast on Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:58 pm

ivory keys - I enjoyed your posts and was esp. fascinated with your having been imprisoned in Vietnam - is it something you want to tell us about? At least you like Vietnamese coffee - I went to your blog to get that info. Nice blog - you seem to be living life to the fullest. I'd like to meet your Dad - has he gotten the yellow mustang that he put on fridge shopping list? I rented one as a surprise for my wife in Memphis when we flew in and drove to MS for an employees wedding. Great fun!
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Postby Marvin Mast on Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:01 am

btw, in case anyone remembers how this thread got started back on page 1, I got up at 3:45am to take Hans and Benjamin to Washington Dulles this morning. They flew to Wichita, KS and were met at the airport by a socialist. Any idea what they may have talked about during the 1 hour drive to Hutchinson???
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Postby ivorykeys on Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:12 am

Marvin Mast wrote:ivory keys - I enjoyed your posts and was esp. fascinated with your having been imprisoned in Vietnam - is it something you want to tell us about? At least you like Vietnamese coffee - I went to your blog to get that info. Nice blog - you seem to be living life to the fullest. I'd like to meet your Dad - has he gotten the yellow mustang that he put on fridge shopping list? I rented one as a surprise for my wife in Memphis when we flew in and drove to MS for an employees wedding. Great fun!


Thank you for the encouragement! No, my dad hasn't gotten his yellow mustang yet, but he's still hoping. :)

As to Vietnam...I was over in SouthEast Asia on a short-term mission trip this summer. One of my team-mates and I were distributing literature (we were riding a motorbike through the countryside and throwing literature into people's yards when we thought no one was looking), and we were followed and arrested. They held us for eight hours, confiscated the literature, questioned us, made us sign a bunch of papers and the literature, and finally blacklisted us for life and released us. That's the concise version of the story.

In spite of it all, I do have some good memories of Vietnam (yes, including the coffee! :) ) and it makes me sad to think I can never go back.
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Postby harvest_wth_shouts_of_joy on Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:17 pm

Jeff, glad you're on here!
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Postby Truthseeker on Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:18 pm

Hello Jeff, glad you are here. I see you can really stir up these people with few words! Some talent you have there, and did it all with just your name and a greeting! Amazing! :shock: :o :lol:

Hans, at least give him a chance before you label him in front of us all. Even socialists have a soul, or don't you think so?! :roll: :)
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Postby verdamae on Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:53 pm

Marvin Mast wrote:btw, in case anyone remembers how this thread got started back on page 1, I got up at 3:45am to take Hans and Benjamin to Washington Dulles this morning. They flew to Wichita, KS and were met at the airport by a socialist. Any idea what they may have talked about during the 1 hour drive to Hutchinson???




What did they talk about?? We're looking forward to having your brother here in Kansas:)!!

P.S. Jeff is my cousin!!!
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Postby hansmast on Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:05 am

Truthseeker wrote:Hans, at least give him a chance before you label him in front of us all. Even socialists have a soul, or don't you think so?! :roll: :)


I did give him a chance. I merely said that he is socialist (which he is a self-described one) and left it up to the readers' judgement as to whether that was good or bad thing.
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Postby TurfMover on Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:29 pm

"Socialism depends on free, informed societies to function"?? That is the basis for Capitalism. Socialism is when a "few" make the decisions for the "many". The Society may be "informed" but it is NOT free.

BTW. Hans, keep up the good fight, not all of us are as eloquent as you are, and as adept at defeating Socialists with their own words.
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